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posted by dennisn on January 2nd, 2015 at 5:16PM
What do you think he meant by "I'm ashamed of the person I am"?
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posted by jenni on January 3rd, 2015 at 2:10PM
Perhaps his parents placed unhealthy expectations on him so whenever he does not live up to those expectations he feels shame for not completing the narrative set upon him as to how his life should go. Perhaps his lack of control over his epilepsy (which was a major issue for him psychologically, according to the documentaries I have seen) led to feelings of shame/humiliation because he was not fitting into the box of what a man 'should' be. The 'should be' concept leads to a lot of self hate for many people.
I think the mind focuses on/develops a pattern that leads to negative emotions for two reasons. One being that paying attention to the negative emotions is a survival mechanism so the next time a situation arises that invokes negative emotions we are prepared for it. Ie: if I assume there is a bear (the worst case scenario) in the woods and not a rabbit I can prepare myself to fight/flight, whereas I do not need to prepare for the rabbit as it will not kill me/invoke negative emotions. Another reason could be the lack of healthy bonding as a child with the parents which can lead to various defense mechanisms to further detach from other people or from the self. Such as physical isolation from others or mental isolation from others, intellectualizing things to validate isolation, aversion to change (which also comes down to survival/insecurities in the unknown) in lifestyle choices, etc.
Feeding the narrative of self hate/shame as opposed to accepting the narrative as a deeply internalized thought pattern and changing it for a realistic/healthy one leads to a downward spiral of negative emotions which leads to the sad demise that is Ian Curtis' story.
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posted by dennisn on January 4th, 2015 at 6:57AM
Agreed. Specifically, I think this survival mechanism is designed to make us conform to social expectations (parental, et cetera), and underpins our herding mentality, and our deep sense of morality. It would be really messed up if this gets coopted for conforming to shallow/unhealthy ends, as it usually does :s. (I think this is why most people recoil and reject the idea of good vs evil (eg. Karina), since such pressure was used invalidly against them in youth.)
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posted by jenni on January 4th, 2015 at 1:33PM
It is messed up that many people have developed self-deprecating behaviors to conform to some pretty inhumane standards, as opposed to dealing with unmet needs, desires or traumas and progressing as a world filled with healthy, compassionate individuals (which, imho, would solve many of the worlds problems).
I suppose some choose to ignore reality and create their own narrative by normalizing unhealthy behaviors or abuse as a part of life. I often ask people what they think is the reason that some folks choose not to deal with their problems or strive for healthier alternatives to their current lifestyle choices and most of the answers are too sad to even repeat. Which is an answer in itself.
Perhaps Mr. Curtis was trapped in a traumatized loop that kept being filled and enlarged with more trauma/self-hate and he became incapable of ever seeing/having hope for a way out, consciously or subconsciously. Although I would like to hope that our subconscious has survival as a primary desire/innate need and seeks to achieve that with healthy means and something (trauma, illusions, etc) in our conscious minds prevents/blocks some from achieving those goals. Or would trauma be rooted in the subconscious and everything that becomes the self grows from there...thoughts to ponder for the day.
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