create new account | forgot password


posted by dennisn on February 28th, 2008 at 10:00PM

Hrmm. It would appear that placing your money in a bank, contrary to the intuitive perception of what a bank is (a secure storage depot), is actually an act of gambling. What if I did want a *secure* storage depot for my money (with the convenience of debit/credit cards -- otherwise i'd just keep it at home)? Do any such services exist today -- places that simply keep my money in a secure room; that don't gamble with it? I certainly think there's a demand for such institutions. Why can't the government offer such a service? I assume the administrative costs would be minimal.

I remember hearing that canadian banks now insure our savings for UP TO about $100,000. This appears to be a better way -- but why not simply guarantee the security of /all/ our savings? I assume, in the event of another stock market crash, that this insurance would be paid via taxation -- which makes sense, since (by the law of conservation of mass and energy) the invested money still exists somewhere, and thus taxation would get it back.
Link | Parent


 
 

There is no conversation of mass and energy
posted by Driusan on February 29th, 2008 at 7:12PM

Money isn't gold backed anymore, as Daniel corrected me months and months ago.

It's just a number in a database with a lot of laws about what you can and can't do to that number.

posted by dennisn on February 29th, 2008 at 11:18PM

I know it doesn't have gold backing -- but the amount of money in the global system is, for all intents and purposes, fixed. (Isn't it? What could possibly change it, short of printing or burning bills?) And in that sense, all your invested money does still exist somewhere -- for example, in the hands of a company that the bank invested in -- or one of this companies hired contractors; etc, etc. And so taxation would get it back -- albeit pretty unjustly (most of the taxed people had nothing to do with your money).

posted by Driusan on March 1st, 2008 at 12:47PM

You think bills aren't printed or destroyed?

posted by dsk on March 1st, 2008 at 2:20AM

/I know it doesn't have gold backing -- but the amount of money in the global system is, for all intents and purposes, fixed./

No. What do you think inflation is?

posted by dennisn on March 1st, 2008 at 8:34AM

I've heard some economists call it the greatest of evils.

posted by dsk on February 29th, 2008 at 3:11AM

/Do any such services exist today -- places that simply keep my money in a secure room; that don't gamble with it? /

No.

Keep it under your bed if you're worried about banking. Besides, there are much worse things that can happen to your paper currency than a stock market crash - just ask the citizens of Zimbabwe with carts full of money. Nobody there worries about "fractional-reserve banking". Banks there don't go bankrupt, but the printing presses are working overtime. So many things would have to go very wrong in order for you to not be able   to take out your savings that if we do get to that point, your measly savings will the least of your worries.

/Why can't the government offer such a service?/

Just because.

The joys of banking....
posted by fsimone on March 7th, 2008 at 9:49PM

Having once studied the Great Depression, I'll weigh in on this conversation a little. If memory serves, the monetary side of the Great Depression in the US came about due to the progressive failures of numerous banks in the United States and the failure on the part of the Federal Reserve to act quickly to inject liquidity into the system. (There is a very important non-monetary side to the story but that discussion is too lengthy to include here).   Basically, the banks were holding investments and as the market crashed they became worthless causing some of the banks to fail.   This caused a wave of panic among deposit holders who tried to pull money out of other banks.   Given the banks only hold a fraction of outstanding deposits in reserve, this panic in itself would cause the more stable banks to fail as well.   The cycle would continue.

A couple of important points to address are the following....first bank accounts today are in fact relatively safe given the fact that the Federal government, through the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation, guarantees funds in regular bank accounts up to a certain amount ($1M if memory serves). This sort of institution did not exist during the Great Depression.   Banks also are required to meet very stringent regulations with respect to how they invest their capital.   Now would this system be completely fool-proof in the event of a castostrophic global financial meltdown?   Let's just hope that we never get there...

posted by dennisn on March 7th, 2008 at 11:18PM

Full-reserve banking and free banking seem to be viable alternatives -- the latter of which comes with the added bonus of NO GOVERNMENT interference :).

posted by Nylorac on March 7th, 2008 at 10:25PM

Dean Roger Martin blames every major and minor depression on bankers.   =)

posted by dennisn on March 7th, 2008 at 11:26PM

Well, it's an inherent problem with the system (of fractional reserve banking) -- the bankers are merely pawns in the game. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that most of our money isn't actually there -- and is being gambled with. (Does anyone know what the required reserve ratio is at the moment? (*cough* [[fsimone]])). All the social cushions we now have don't really make me feel better -- since they effectively swap one evil for another (insecurity of savings with government tyranny).

>Does anyone know what the req by dsk on March 7th, 2008 at 11:45PM.

posted by rick on February 29th, 2008 at 12:52AM

Not sure what the scope of this discussion is, or how much econ background you have, but modern banks really evolved away from being a secure storage of money a long time ago. What we have now is http://en.wikipedia.org/w...-reserve_banking fractional-reserve banking, where banks don't ever have enough cash on hand to pay everyone who has an account. Instead they take the money to invest and to give out interest-generating loans. This won't change anytime soon, since we're accustomed to having bank accounts pay interest /to/ us, rather than paying administrative fees to the bank.

If you want something different for your money, perhaps you're looking for credit unions, but they're still a financial institution, although some put more emphasis on creating profit for customers as well as the institution itself.

posted by dsk on February 29th, 2008 at 2:50AM

He might be looking for a safety-deposit box.

posted by Driusan on February 29th, 2008 at 7:13PM

With a debit card.