mf - story #6258 - But you make it soun

posted by jenni on April 15th, 2012 at 8:12AM

But you make it sound like everyone is as nice and fair as we are, but that's just not the case, and I agree that people shouldn't be forced to do things I just can't seem to forget about the selfish things I have been hearing about for most of my adult life. Maybe I just listen to to much news, but I doubt it.
I find it hard to just sit back and listen to my friends who really do want to go to university and learn hands on about whatever they want to learn but can't because they don't have enough money, for even the cheapest education in the country. All forms of education should be accessible to all, whether its punk rock school or yoga school. Perhaps one day all teachers and educators will work on a barter system but until then then I want to try to make the best of what we do have, or since I do like your ways perhaps while I am away you can start a revolution and make me come back to a better town.

Link | Parent

posted by dennisn on April 15th, 2012 at 9:40AM

I have never claimed that "everyone" is nice and fair. Nor would pointing a gun to their heads magically make them nice and fair. On the other hand, it would make you not nice, and unfair, if you did that.

Moreover, apparently, you do NOT agree that people shouldn't be forced to do things against their will. You really need to think about this point a bit more.

So, you bring up a concrete point, even though you completely ignore my concrete point and my questions :P. But fine. Please explain exactly why your "friends" can't afford "even the cheapest education". Rent can be as low as $300/mo, assuming they're not living with their parents. (Why don't they live with their parents? That would make rent free!) Food is another $300/mo on top of that. An excellent engineering education (at least at the University of Toronto) can be had for $10,000/year. So, the grand total is under $20,000, and can be much lower, depending on which program you take (online programs should be a tonne cheaper), where you live. Student loans are also readily available, as a last case scenario.

So, are you sure these people you're referring to really can't go to university, even though they really really want to?!? Do they at least study for free online, with the massive resources and textbooks available online? I mean, they can actually learn everything for FREE (MIT offers many of their course materials online for free, for example). Are they doing that?

So, you see what I'm slowly and painfully getting at :p. I dare you to think of even a single valid reason to justify *pointing guns at your neighbours head*. I understand things may be more difficult if you are born in poverty, but nothing even close to the desperation and severity that would require violence and guns.

Getting back to my questions, that you blatantly ignored :p, *I HAVE SEVERE MORAL AND PRACTICAL OBJECTIONS TO CURRENT SCHOOLS*. Let alone that I am being violently forced to pay for them. I really am convinced that they rot the brain and highly propagandize kids. Such terrible places should NOT be "accessible to all". They should be completely inaccessible! That is my passionate, well thought-out position. Now, the question is, do you respect my well thought-out opinions, my ethics, my values? Or will you completely ignore and de-value them, and force me to do things against my values/ethics/wishes?

(Regarding the "barter system" you referred to, I'm guessing what you actually have a problem with is *government fiat paper-money* -- and not the concept of money in general. Money, in general, IS simply a barter system. Bitcoins, for example, will be the money of the future, and they are awesome, and completely separate from the State.)

Link

posted by jenni on April 15th, 2012 at 7:00PM

Some people have parents who charge them rent or some people have parents that they are not capable of living with for many different reasons.If you want examples I can give you some! Life is expensive, but yes, people do make the choice of where they spend their money . Student loans however, are almost pointless. Students spend thousands to apparently gain access to better employment then the moment they are out of school the money comes right out of their bank accounts and back to the bank whether they have found a job or not.

Yes, the internet is a great learning tool but some, myself included, can't just learn by reading something, I need interaction, instant reaction, I find writing these responses a bit hard, beyond the fact that I don't much like writing I prefer to hear your answers right away, etc, and I feel like I make more sense in real life and digest your information better. Perhaps this is why I ignored your points.

I tend to think of a barter system as services as opposed to actual physical exchange of some material. I make you food you make me shoes or something.
Bitcoins seem to just be virtual money, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Your points are very valid and they always push me right into a wall and I get stuck and this is where I am now,

Link

posted by dennisn on April 15th, 2012 at 10:47PM

My point was that I still don't see the desperate urgency that would be required to justify violent subsidization of schooling. Simply aesthetically preferring to live alone, or to have a real-life professor talking in front of you, or choosing an unprofitable industry to enter, are not even close to valid reasons to justify extreme violence. On the other hand, if you had an example of some handicapped mentally-retarded kid, who has no money and no brains, then perhaps that would warrant further consideration. Alas, 99.9% of advocates for public education are casually promoting bloody violence, simply for more convenience.

Money is essentially a far more efficient barter system. If you have some honey that I want, but you only accept chocolate in return for it, except I don't have any chocolate on me at the moment, I don't have to wait until I happen to find some middle-man who I can trade with to get some chocolate, to pay you with to get your honey. Instead, I could simply pay you in cash immediately, which you can redeem for chocolate, or anything else, whenever you want.

Bitcoin is indeed a virtual (i.e. digital) money, but a very special and unique one. One that will revolutionize the world. It is completely independent of any government, it can be used and transferred completely anonymously, and it cannot be inflated -- in fact, the value of 1BTC will probably be worth many many times what it's worth currently (because of their finite supply), unlike State-fiat-money which drastically loses value over time.

What wall are you stuck at?

Link

posted by dennisn on April 15th, 2012 at 10:49PM

By the way, there is another "virtual"/digital barter tool called Ripple, which is fascinating and very useful -- but isn't meant to replace money/bitcoins -- only to complement them.

Link