posted by dennisn on December 8th, 2011 at 11:52PM
Yes out of context. I was especially careful to explain the logic and reasoning behind the answers, since the issue clearly seems to provoke mindless brainwashing-reactions in people. You have yet to criticize the logic and reasoning. Instead you consistently seem to want to incite that very same mindless reactivity, by cutting out the explanation, and posting only the reaction-inducing bit on the front page.
Why are you still avoiding the questions? There were a few important ones I asked you, *even in that first paragraph you're quoting here*? One of them was in caps-lock too! (I'm honestly curious if you're aware of your evasion, or if your brainwashing is operating on a subsconscious level?)
Regarding kids knowing what they want -- again, you *did* evade the question -- you instead chose to jump to your own question about sex (which was not what I was asking about). So, again, please answer the question -- to paraphrase: "what capacity do kids have to choose what they want? none? some? full?"
For example, I very clearly did not want to go to statist-kindergarten. It was incredibly traumatic. I said no. I cried profusely. I still have vivid traumatic memories of it. Do you think it was okay to force me to go? Did I have any capacity in that case to judge whether I wanted to go or not?
Another example: I loved reading the books that I had at home (not from school), and playing with my toys. Do you think I was capable of judging what I wanted? Or should other people's books and toys have been imposed on me, because I was incapable of choosing?
I'm fully aware that the younger the kid is, the less knowledgeable they are, and thus the less able they are to make choices on their own. So, I don't disagree that adult supervision is necessary, to prevent them from signing bad contracts, drinking heroin, and doing other bad things. So, the real question comes down to the "class of thing" as you put it. That is, sexuality -- not necessarily sex. If penetration is your only problem, then what are your thoughts on non-penetrative child sexuality?
Your parrotting of state propaganda about "magically hitting 16-18" is complete rubbish. The chick Roman Polanski slept with was 13, she was very mature for her age -- she honestly looked 18ish too -- and she consented. There is no magic age. The only question is: is sexuality good or bad -- is there malice and pain, or mutual-respect and pleasure?
Your knowledge of child psychology is *sorely* lacking. Children are sexual from an incredibly early age, arguably since birth (or before). But definitely after a few years, probably 5ish they begin to explore and masturbate -- a small percentage to be sure -- but that percentage steadily increases after every year. I began 8ish -- and that was coming from a completely repressed anti-sex environment.
Your knowledge of anecdotal evidence on this matter is also *sorely* lacking and dangerously propagandized. All you know is what our anti-sex culture has let you know. You clearly haven't bothered investigating on your own. Because if you did, you'd soon discover positive cases. Your zeal to jump to a conclusion you are clearly incompetent to make is frightening, don't you think?
You also avoided the question about "doing it" enjoyably under adult supervision -- resorting to your usual tactic of reactionary anti-intellectual evasion on this matter. If it's just penetration you have a problem with, then let me rephrase: "would you be okay with parents respectfully teaching and exploring their child's sexuality, if the child is having a good time, and is one of those early-explorers, which are well-documented in studies? for example, having the parents teach their kids how to masturbate properly, and enjoyably. acceptable or not?"
(I don't want to digress, but you also avoided my question about your girlfriend and "whore"-calling. But, I'll just assume she didn't find that particular behavior of yours "unbelievably funny." Perhaps she found your other noxious behaviour funny :s. Also, I still think there was a lot more malice behind your demeanor. How many girls (girls you don't really know, no less) did you call "whores" in real life, just to be funny? Was my girlfriend the first?)
(Regarding the doctors, and squeegee kids, the real question is given the choice, would they continue to use violence or not. (Also, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about what the free market price of medical services is -- the medical market (especially) is so infested with bureaucracy and coercion, it's impossible to say. But this is an irrelevant correction. The only question that's worth asking is the one I just asked -- it's the one that differentiates who is complicit in the crime, and who is being violently oppressed.))
(Regarding my alleged hypocrisy and inconsistancy, I thought you were referring to this issue. We've addressed those other issues you mentioned before, and I don't want to digress further. We can get back to that later, or in another thread if you insist.)
Why are you still avoiding the questions? There were a few important ones I asked you, *even in that first paragraph you're quoting here*? One of them was in caps-lock too! (I'm honestly curious if you're aware of your evasion, or if your brainwashing is operating on a subsconscious level?)
Regarding kids knowing what they want -- again, you *did* evade the question -- you instead chose to jump to your own question about sex (which was not what I was asking about). So, again, please answer the question -- to paraphrase: "what capacity do kids have to choose what they want? none? some? full?"
For example, I very clearly did not want to go to statist-kindergarten. It was incredibly traumatic. I said no. I cried profusely. I still have vivid traumatic memories of it. Do you think it was okay to force me to go? Did I have any capacity in that case to judge whether I wanted to go or not?
Another example: I loved reading the books that I had at home (not from school), and playing with my toys. Do you think I was capable of judging what I wanted? Or should other people's books and toys have been imposed on me, because I was incapable of choosing?
I'm fully aware that the younger the kid is, the less knowledgeable they are, and thus the less able they are to make choices on their own. So, I don't disagree that adult supervision is necessary, to prevent them from signing bad contracts, drinking heroin, and doing other bad things. So, the real question comes down to the "class of thing" as you put it. That is, sexuality -- not necessarily sex. If penetration is your only problem, then what are your thoughts on non-penetrative child sexuality?
Your parrotting of state propaganda about "magically hitting 16-18" is complete rubbish. The chick Roman Polanski slept with was 13, she was very mature for her age -- she honestly looked 18ish too -- and she consented. There is no magic age. The only question is: is sexuality good or bad -- is there malice and pain, or mutual-respect and pleasure?
Your knowledge of child psychology is *sorely* lacking. Children are sexual from an incredibly early age, arguably since birth (or before). But definitely after a few years, probably 5ish they begin to explore and masturbate -- a small percentage to be sure -- but that percentage steadily increases after every year. I began 8ish -- and that was coming from a completely repressed anti-sex environment.
Your knowledge of anecdotal evidence on this matter is also *sorely* lacking and dangerously propagandized. All you know is what our anti-sex culture has let you know. You clearly haven't bothered investigating on your own. Because if you did, you'd soon discover positive cases. Your zeal to jump to a conclusion you are clearly incompetent to make is frightening, don't you think?
You also avoided the question about "doing it" enjoyably under adult supervision -- resorting to your usual tactic of reactionary anti-intellectual evasion on this matter. If it's just penetration you have a problem with, then let me rephrase: "would you be okay with parents respectfully teaching and exploring their child's sexuality, if the child is having a good time, and is one of those early-explorers, which are well-documented in studies? for example, having the parents teach their kids how to masturbate properly, and enjoyably. acceptable or not?"
(I don't want to digress, but you also avoided my question about your girlfriend and "whore"-calling. But, I'll just assume she didn't find that particular behavior of yours "unbelievably funny." Perhaps she found your other noxious behaviour funny :s. Also, I still think there was a lot more malice behind your demeanor. How many girls (girls you don't really know, no less) did you call "whores" in real life, just to be funny? Was my girlfriend the first?)
(Regarding the doctors, and squeegee kids, the real question is given the choice, would they continue to use violence or not. (Also, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about what the free market price of medical services is -- the medical market (especially) is so infested with bureaucracy and coercion, it's impossible to say. But this is an irrelevant correction. The only question that's worth asking is the one I just asked -- it's the one that differentiates who is complicit in the crime, and who is being violently oppressed.))
(Regarding my alleged hypocrisy and inconsistancy, I thought you were referring to this issue. We've addressed those other issues you mentioned before, and I don't want to digress further. We can get back to that later, or in another thread if you insist.)
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posted by dennisn on December 10th, 2011 at 12:28PM
How are we doing on this thread? I'm pretty sure corrections, and possibly apologies are in order? It's amazing what a little thinking can do -- to change knee-jerk reflexes.
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